Elvas Tower stänger pga DMCA-dispyt... - Svenska 3D-Tåg

Jonatan · 2015-05-30, 15:41

Ett populärt trainsim-forum ska slå igen pga en dispyt mellan admin och en bannad medlem som kräver offentlig ursäkt och alla sina poster raderade...

Tråden kan läsas här: http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...er-is-closing/. Men för dom som inte är medlemmar och kan logga in, så citerar jag första inlägget. NOTERA: inlägget är på engelska och långt:

"<< ADMIN COMMENT >>

On account of frivolous DMCA demands from Jeffery Kraus-Yao my internet host insists I take down certain posts for which I believe I have ever right to retain and to present to you -- specifically a post written by Marc Nelson that quotes Jeffery Kraus-Yao's own words -- words that by any measure puts himself (Kraus-Yao) in an unfavorable light.

It is my firm belief that quotation is an essential requirement of any discussion forum. It is also my firm belief that when you write something stupid on the internet that you get to pay the consequences. Self-embarrassment is not a justification to use the power of Federal Law to force censorship. Self-embarrassment is not a justification to claim copyright violation, especially when only hours later Krass-Yao wrote in another post "While likely an unpopular opinion in this forum, I support copyright infringement, or as pejoratively called piracy or theft". OTOH self-embarrassment is often remarkably useful insight into the character of the speaker.

To frivolously demand censorship using a DMCA Copyright violation take down order is not only illegal under Federal Law but also reflects upon the requester of the take down order -- in this case Krass-Yao.

I expected my internet host would brush aside this request but that has not happened.

So to comply with censorship I am taking the following actions:

1.I am immediately closing the MSTS forum. This step erases the so-called infringing post from further view.

2.Over the next 24 hours I will be closing down all other forums excepting for this announcement forum and the private forums used by Staff and OR Team. Neither group will have access any other forums. These forums will remain open for at least several weeks.

3.All the other forums will remain closed until such time my internet host informs me the complaint is formally rejected or not, a period not less than 14 days.

4.In this blackout period I will be reviewing alternative hosting locations, probably outside of North America, in search of a host that reviews the merits of take down requests before enforcing them. I will also be assessing the question of whether I want to bother re-creating this site elsewhere. Dealing with this sort of crap is not my idea of hobby time.

5.If a determination is made to close the site permanently I will refund all First Class donations on a pro-rated basis.

As an addendum to the above,I wish it to be known that the first step in the dispute with Kraus-Yao was my banning him from this site on account of my opinion his his behavior in the forums was disruptive. A day or too later a Mr Todd Bowers registered as a member using an ip address in Tennessee. Mr. Bowers immediate started to demand I censor some posts. This continued to a formal statement of impending legal action. This text can be read here. Upon review I have concluded all assertions made in that document are without merit.

However, in the course of making that determination several other events transpired which I want to place on the record: An ip address known to be used by Krass-Yao attempted access to this board using the logon created for Mr Todd Bowers. There were also many attempts from the same ip address by someone also attempting to log on as Jeffery Kraus-Yao. These events were enough for me to conclude Kraus-Yao and Todd Bowers were very likely the same person and left me with the opinion that such false presentation is likely to be expected here and elsewhere.

I also received several e-mails from Kraus-Yao. He wanted an offending post taken down; He wanted a public apology. He wanted to be reinstated as a full member of this board. He attempted casual chit chat on aspects of copyright. In response I contact the author of said post who agreed it would be best to remove it -- there was a hearsay assertion therein... not useful information to anyone and so it was deleted. I refused the other demands. It was then Kraus-Yao filed his DMCA take down demand with my host. The rest is described above.

A personal word to you, my friends on this site. Taking these steps is hard to do but in light of the fact this is the second abuse of DMCA take downs the joy of running this site is rapidly evaporating. I do not run this site for the money, I do not run this site for the social interaction (altho I certain value them very much). I run this site for purposes of exchanging information -- a means to understand and learn from each other. It is what I thrive on. Faced with the choice of operating in a technical environment that allows arbitrary censorship of information and free speech -- something that defeats my purpose in this site, something that drains all the enjoyment of this site -- forces me to choose between meekly complying because it is the easy thing to do vs. standing up for what I believe in. I have always chosen the later.

The first DMCA take down resulted in over 1000 posts being censored. I vowed to myself at that time not to let it happen again... and yet here today, at the demand of Jeffery Kraus-Yao it has. Enough is enough.

a.k.a. Dave Nelson
Myers-Briggs: INTP"

Jag och andra på Elvas Tower har föreslagit flyttning till en Skandinavisk ISP. Är det någon här som skulle vilja hjälpa till att förhindra Elvas Tower att gå i graven för gott? Komma med förslag?

bönan · 2015-05-30, 16:01

Sorgligt. Vem tusan tar något sådant till domstol?

Hela Borawia Railways-tråden är för övrigt borta med allt dess innehåll, det blir mycket att bygga upp på nytt. För det projektet har jag startat ett separat forum:

http://borawia.freeforums.net/

Jonatan · 2015-05-30, 17:27

Borawia-tråden är inte borta, Dave sa att han ska stänga alla forum allt eftersom, sen ligger dom gömda tills vidare. Han tar bara bort allt om han och hans ISP inte kan homma till ett resolut beslut...

bönan · 2015-05-30, 17:44

Aha, ja det var ju positivt i alla fall.

Totte · 2015-05-30, 20:14

Hoppas sidan överlever! Det handlar om en person som kräver av adm ursäkt, tror jag som uppfattat rätt.

Jonatan · 2015-05-30, 21:10

Personen i fråga lyckades få en advokat och hotade att stämma adm och ALLA medlemmar som läste tråden som startade allt.

Totte · 2015-06-06, 12:54

Hej!
Jag kollade om det är åter öppnad igen. Den är tillbaka!

spyfrog · 2015-07-26, 12:41

Citat:

Ursprungligen postat av Totte

Hej!
Jag kollade om det är åter öppnad igen. Den är tillbaka!

Jag försökte komma in i Elvas tower för att läsa lite om Open Rails - deras hemsida är ju inte den bästa för att få information.

Men jag kommer inte in i Elvas tower. Jag får bara att jag inte har behörighet. Så jag skapade ett konto (hade inget). Det gick bra men jag ser fortfarande inget innehåll. Så är det verkligen öppnat igen? Det känns som att det är låst och dött....

Mazz · 2015-07-26, 12:45

Citat:

Ursprungligen postat av spyfrog

Jag försökte komma in i Elvas tower för att läsa lite om Open Rails - deras hemsida är ju inte den bästa för att få information.

Men jag kommer inte in i Elvas tower. Jag får bara att jag inte har behörighet. Så jag skapade ett konto (hade inget). Det gick bra men jag ser fortfarande inget innehåll. Så är det verkligen öppnat igen? Det känns som att det är låst och dött....

Jag var precis inne där, mycket verkar ha hänt och diskuterats runt den nya RE.

spyfrog · 2015-07-26, 12:51

Citat:

Ursprungligen postat av Mazz

Jag var precis inne där, mycket verkar ha hänt och diskuterats runt den nya RE.

Skumt. Vad kan jag ha gjort för fel? Det enda forumet jag kommer åt är informationsforumet från administratorn.... måste man som användare godkännas först manuellt eller något?

Mazz · 2015-07-26, 12:55

Citat:

Ursprungligen postat av spyfrog

Skumt. Vad kan jag ha gjort för fel? Det enda forumet jag kommer åt är informationsforumet från administratorn.... måste man som användare godkännas först manuellt eller något?

låter rimligt. har du fått nått aktiveringsmejl?

spyfrog · 2015-07-26, 13:02

Citat:

Ursprungligen postat av Mazz

låter rimligt. har du fått nått aktiveringsmejl?

ja, och jag kan logga in mm. Det är bara det att alla forum är låsta... tråkigt. Får se om jag kommer in senare idag eller imorgon, annars får man väl försöka maila någon admin typ...

spyfrog · 2015-07-26, 19:00

tydligen måkte man bli manuellt godkänd innan man får gå in i själva forumen. det kanske står på registreringssidan men den var lång..:-)

2015-05-30, 15:41	#1
Jonatan Medlem Reg.datum: Feb 2003 Inlägg: 662	Elvas Tower stänger pga DMCA-dispyt... Ett populärt trainsim-forum ska slå igen pga en dispyt mellan admin och en bannad medlem som kräver offentlig ursäkt och alla sina poster raderade... Tråden kan läsas här: http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...er-is-closing/. Men för dom som inte är medlemmar och kan logga in, så citerar jag första inlägget. NOTERA: inlägget är på engelska och långt: "<< ADMIN COMMENT >> On account of frivolous DMCA demands from Jeffery Kraus-Yao my internet host insists I take down certain posts for which I believe I have ever right to retain and to present to you -- specifically a post written by Marc Nelson that quotes Jeffery Kraus-Yao's own words -- words that by any measure puts himself (Kraus-Yao) in an unfavorable light. It is my firm belief that quotation is an essential requirement of any discussion forum. It is also my firm belief that when you write something stupid on the internet that you get to pay the consequences. Self-embarrassment is not a justification to use the power of Federal Law to force censorship. Self-embarrassment is not a justification to claim copyright violation, especially when only hours later Krass-Yao wrote in another post "While likely an unpopular opinion in this forum, I support copyright infringement, or as pejoratively called piracy or theft". OTOH self-embarrassment is often remarkably useful insight into the character of the speaker. To frivolously demand censorship using a DMCA Copyright violation take down order is not only illegal under Federal Law but also reflects upon the requester of the take down order -- in this case Krass-Yao. I expected my internet host would brush aside this request but that has not happened. So to comply with censorship I am taking the following actions: 1.I am immediately closing the MSTS forum. This step erases the so-called infringing post from further view. 2.Over the next 24 hours I will be closing down all other forums excepting for this announcement forum and the private forums used by Staff and OR Team. Neither group will have access any other forums. These forums will remain open for at least several weeks. 3.All the other forums will remain closed until such time my internet host informs me the complaint is formally rejected or not, a period not less than 14 days. 4.In this blackout period I will be reviewing alternative hosting locations, probably outside of North America, in search of a host that reviews the merits of take down requests before enforcing them. I will also be assessing the question of whether I want to bother re-creating this site elsewhere. Dealing with this sort of crap is not my idea of hobby time. 5.If a determination is made to close the site permanently I will refund all First Class donations on a pro-rated basis. As an addendum to the above,I wish it to be known that the first step in the dispute with Kraus-Yao was my banning him from this site on account of my opinion his his behavior in the forums was disruptive. A day or too later a Mr Todd Bowers registered as a member using an ip address in Tennessee. Mr. Bowers immediate started to demand I censor some posts. This continued to a formal statement of impending legal action. This text can be read here. Upon review I have concluded all assertions made in that document are without merit. However, in the course of making that determination several other events transpired which I want to place on the record: An ip address known to be used by Krass-Yao attempted access to this board using the logon created for Mr Todd Bowers. There were also many attempts from the same ip address by someone also attempting to log on as Jeffery Kraus-Yao. These events were enough for me to conclude Kraus-Yao and Todd Bowers were very likely the same person and left me with the opinion that such false presentation is likely to be expected here and elsewhere. I also received several e-mails from Kraus-Yao. He wanted an offending post taken down; He wanted a public apology. He wanted to be reinstated as a full member of this board. He attempted casual chit chat on aspects of copyright. In response I contact the author of said post who agreed it would be best to remove it -- there was a hearsay assertion therein... not useful information to anyone and so it was deleted. I refused the other demands. It was then Kraus-Yao filed his DMCA take down demand with my host. The rest is described above. A personal word to you, my friends on this site. Taking these steps is hard to do but in light of the fact this is the second abuse of DMCA take downs the joy of running this site is rapidly evaporating. I do not run this site for the money, I do not run this site for the social interaction (altho I certain value them very much). I run this site for purposes of exchanging information -- a means to understand and learn from each other. It is what I thrive on. Faced with the choice of operating in a technical environment that allows arbitrary censorship of information and free speech -- something that defeats my purpose in this site, something that drains all the enjoyment of this site -- forces me to choose between meekly complying because it is the easy thing to do vs. standing up for what I believe in. I have always chosen the later. The first DMCA take down resulted in over 1000 posts being censored. I vowed to myself at that time not to let it happen again... and yet here today, at the demand of Jeffery Kraus-Yao it has. Enough is enough. a.k.a. Dave Nelson Myers-Briggs: INTP" Jag och andra på Elvas Tower har föreslagit flyttning till en Skandinavisk ISP. Är det någon här som skulle vilja hjälpa till att förhindra Elvas Tower att gå i graven för gott? Komma med förslag? __________________ Choo choo fox Senast redigerad av Jonatan den 2015-05-30 klockan 17:32.

2015-05-30, 16:01	#2
bönan Veteran Reg.datum: Jul 2008 Ort: Fagersta Inlägg: 5 541	Sorgligt. Vem tusan tar något sådant till domstol? Hela Borawia Railways-tråden är för övrigt borta med allt dess innehåll, det blir mycket att bygga upp på nytt. För det projektet har jag startat ett separat forum: http://borawia.freeforums.net/ __________________ Mvh Björn Tågklarerare, Fagersta Central, Nora, Smedjebacken och Mora

2015-05-30, 17:27	#3
Jonatan Medlem Reg.datum: Feb 2003 Inlägg: 662	Borawia-tråden är inte borta, Dave sa att han ska stänga alla forum allt eftersom, sen ligger dom gömda tills vidare. Han tar bara bort allt om han och hans ISP inte kan homma till ett resolut beslut... __________________ Choo choo fox Senast redigerad av Jonatan den 2015-05-30 klockan 17:34.

2015-05-30, 17:44	#4
bönan Veteran Reg.datum: Jul 2008 Ort: Fagersta Inlägg: 5 541	Aha, ja det var ju positivt i alla fall. __________________ Mvh Björn Tågklarerare, Fagersta Central, Nora, Smedjebacken och Mora

2015-05-30, 20:14	#5
Totte Hedersmedlem Reg.datum: Mar 2002 Ort: Trollhättan Inlägg: 9 785	Hoppas sidan överlever! Det handlar om en person som kräver av adm ursäkt, tror jag som uppfattat rätt. __________________ MVH TOTTE BanByggarna MSTS Rutt Trollhattan 2 RW-Trollhättan och Bergensbanen Beta Bygger RW-Trollhättan Bygger RW-Bergensbanen newS downloadsida Facebook Trainsimulator Sverige Facebook Trainsimulator Norge Senast redigerad av Totte den 2015-05-30 klockan 20:15.

2015-05-30, 21:10	#6
Jonatan Medlem Reg.datum: Feb 2003 Inlägg: 662	Personen i fråga lyckades få en advokat och hotade att stämma adm och ALLA medlemmar som läste tråden som startade allt. __________________ Choo choo fox

2015-06-06, 12:54	#7
Totte Hedersmedlem Reg.datum: Mar 2002 Ort: Trollhättan Inlägg: 9 785	Hej! Jag kollade om det är åter öppnad igen. Den är tillbaka! __________________ MVH TOTTE BanByggarna MSTS Rutt Trollhattan 2 RW-Trollhättan och Bergensbanen Beta Bygger RW-Trollhättan Bygger RW-Bergensbanen newS downloadsida Facebook Trainsimulator Sverige Facebook Trainsimulator Norge

2015-07-26, 19:00	#13
spyfrog Medlem Reg.datum: Feb 2008 Ort: Gävle Inlägg: 1 535	tydligen måkte man bli manuellt godkänd innan man får gå in i själva forumen. det kanske står på registreringssidan men den var lång..:-)